Blog

Bill Gibson – Yet another 6 ways to raise money without a bank

Succeed Magazine – www.succeed.co.za – April 2007

1. Negotiate no rent for the first six months

Plenty of commercial property sites, in almost every area, lie vacant. You can use this to your advantage. If you can find premises that have been vacant for a long time, there is a good chance you could negotiate your first six months as rent-free.

You do not have to stop at just your property. Computers, photocopiers, switchboards and a host of other equipment can be purchased under conditions that allow the first few months of purchase to be payment free. And the numbers do not lie. If monthly rent for your premises is R20 000, six months rent-free means you have raised R120 000. Add in the capital raised by not having to pay off equipment immediately, and you could raise R200 000 or more.

2. Pay a minimal amount in exchange for a future incentive

If you are sure that your business will be raking in handsome profits in months to come, use this as an asset. Instead of struggling to pay key employees or contractors their full rates while they are working, convince them to take less pay in exchange for greater revenue later. This could be in the form of a substantial bonus or even equity in the company.

3. Take advantage of corporate sponsorships

Many large companies allocate a portion of their budgets to socially responsible initiatives. Corporate sponsorships usually form part of this and are a useful source of finance.

There are many examples where this funding has allowed companies to take off. A few years ago, a rural businesswoman was able to get a grant from Anglo Ashanti because her business was empowering paraplegics. Today her company employs over 100 people. Similar luck fell on a packaging manufacturer in Mpumalanga during October last year. She was able to secure sponsorship funding from a consortium of South African food companies because her business promised to empower local women in her area. She had her starting costs completely paid for and all she had to do was write a few letters.

Do not assume that this kind of finance will always come easily. The time and effort required to organise a sponsorship is seldom small. It is most likely to be a long process of negotiation. It is also important to consider that most companies support businesses that are aimed at people they are trying to reach. This is why you should think carefully about what you can offer them. It is likely they will want some form of credit or attribution for their socially responsible donations. If you can guarantee this, you will go a long way in being allocated their funds.

4. Promise clients special terms for two years

Allowing a customer an extended special rate for two years, on condition that they sign a two-year contract, can be a great option for getting your company out of its start-up phase. While you are struggling to get initial customers, special rates can rope clients into going into long-term business with you. From an investor’s point of view, it makes perfect sense.

Once you have secured a list of long-term clients you are, for argument’s sake, a viable business. This makes you a more compelling recipient for investment capital.

5. Borrow against your bond

This option has many advantages, but will only work if you have a rock solid business plan. You need to know exactly where your business is going and how you intend to take it there.

The risks should give you some perspective. When you borrow against the equity in your bond, you are not borrowing from the bank. You are borrowing from yourself.

If you do not make the payments you have a lot to lose. The bank will have the right to force you to sell your property – which will most probably be your home. This means you have to be particularly careful. 

6. Offer discounts for upfront payment

It is the task of financial directors and procurement managers to save company costs. That is where they get their job satisfaction. This situation can create a compelling answer to your cash flow problems. By promising customers a reduced rate for paying 50% to 100% of your costs up front, you can both benefit. They minimise costs while you get working capital. The trick is to make sure this discount is attractive. Two percent off is not going to get anyone excited

Bill Gibson has spoken to over one million people around the world and is the chairperson of and a partner in Knowledge Brokers International SA(Pty) Ltd (KBI), along with Marius Liebenberg. Bill Gibson is the author/ developer of the 25-module sales system titled The Complete Sales Action System and the eight-module Managing Complex Business Relationships system. For more information about Bill Gibson as a speaker and the KBI products, contact 011 784 1720 or bill@kbitraining.com.

Bill Gibson – Make Money in the dark

Bill Gibson reveals how to keep your business afloat during the power cuts

Succeed Magazine – www.succeed.co.za – March 2008 Issue

There is no getting around it: the power cuts are a major blow to South African businesses. And unfortunately, among the hardest hit are the little guys running small and medium enterprises. “We need to get real about this,” says Bill Gibson, chairperson of Knowledge Brokers International. “If your company is barely breaking even every month, the power cuts could put you out of business. Even if you are turning a profit, you need to prepare for the possibility of lean times ahead.”

By nature, smaller businesses are more agile than large corporations. This is the time to exercise your flexibility and out manoeuvre your bigger competition. “Do not wait around for Eskom, the government or your landlord to give you a hand. The truth is that you have to help yourself,” says Gibson.

Analyse your business’s needs and gather as much information as quickly as possible. This empowers you to take action. Businesses that have moved swiftly are capitalising.

“There is a steakhouse in Sandton that was the first to get a generator. While other restaurants are in the dark, it is scrambling to seat the people queuing out the door.” The secret to making money in any economy, good or bad, is to keep your business lean and keen. In other words, determine how you can keep your overheads down and direct your energies into growing your core business. “Getting lean is one thing but staying keen requires hard work psychologically,” says Gibson. “The market is still there – even if it is smaller.”

Many companies tend to withdraw and stop advertising in tough times. Never do this. Redouble your efforts. Make more calls and be proactive. Now is the time to advertise because everyone else is pulling back and it is easier to get above the noise level.

There are a number of aspects to managing your people effectively during a crisis. The first and most important is keeping morale up. “We all need outlets for our frustration and anger. The trick is not to get bogged down in the negatives,” says Gibson. “Look for good news and make sure you tell your staff. Set aside a certain part of the day for complaining and then concentrate on making the most of every opportunity.” He adds that in some ways the power cuts have helped to stimulate much-needed dialogue in companies. It has forced people to hold impromptu meetings and to talk about issues that are otherwise side-lined. Gibson says that losing good people is not an option. He suggests that you work closely with your staff and be upfront about the state of the company. Involve them and listen to their suggestions. “Try to be fair when it comes to reimbursement. Instead of letting people go, try to find an agreement where you cut back working hours equally. Consider going onto an hourly rate of pay but institute half a day’s pay as the minimum.” During tough times, the survival instinct kicks in and people tend to look after their own interests. According to Gibson, it is more effective to pool resources and work together with others, especially if you run a small or medium enterprise. A restaurant in Sandton is scrambling to seat customers because it was the first to get a generator. “Try splitting the cost of a generator with other small businesses in your building. It can be a huge expense for one company alone but together it is manageable.”

Dealing with the power crisis may mean adjusting the way you do business. For instance, working hours may need to be revised. Once there is a schedule in place, work around the power cuts or go in on weekends. Try to arrange that activities that do not require power take place during load shedding times, like meetings or training sessions.

If a large part of your business is about calling for sales, print out hardcopies of your client database. Plan your calls in advance and divert landlines to cell phones so that you are able to take calls wherever you are. Better planning with regards to petty cash and petrol is a necessity. Retailers may have to consider processing credit cards manually. Gibson admits that this is risky but says that it is better than not being able to make any sales at all.

Lastly, consider investing in technology to alleviate the power crunch. Laptops and cell phones work on batteries and can give you a few extra hours. Buy extra batteries and keep them charged. Investigate 3G connectivity for laptops and uninterrupted power supply for other computers. Realise that although you are not in control of the situation, you can control your reaction to it. “In any given situation you have three choices,” says Gibson. “You can speak out. You can accept it. Or you can exit.”

For many people who own businesses, exiting now is not an option because of the time and money they have invested to grow their enterprises. And because there is only so much talking to be done, it seems that adapting to the circumstances is the most sensible route. Gibson says that adapting means you have to get real about where the country and your business are. He adds that while disbelief is a normal reaction under stressful circumstances, you cannot stick your head in the sand and pretend that all is well. “Power cuts are a reality. The sooner you believe it, the quicker you can do something about it.”

Now is the time to advertise because everyone else is pulling back and it is easier to get above the noise level

Avoid the blame game

There are many possible reasons why the country is experiencing an electricity supply crisis. And while it is important to figure out the cause, the truth is that pointing fingers is counterproductive. Looking for someone to blame is energy sapping and prevents you from moving forward. “South Africa is not Zimbabwe, but it is not a fully functioning first world country either. At least now we know what we are up against and this gives us a basis from which we can operate. We are not the only country in the world experiencing an energy problem. China, Brazil and Cuba have found solutions and we can too,” says Bill Gibson.

Amid the disappointment and the outrage, business owners need to adopt a rational approach if they are to keep on top of the situation. Although it is not possible for the average person to solve the country’s problems, they can solve the challenges facing their own companies. With the right attitude and through honing your tactics, you may even find ways to increase your sales.

7 Steps to Building a Social Business

Following is a an excerpt from Shane Gibson’s keynote at Social Media Week in Vancouver Canada on 7 Steps to Building a Social Business.

Social Media Speaker South Africa

Social media speaker Shane Gibson talks about the impact on social media use on sales, marketing and customer relationship management in this 41 minute keynote speech. This seminar was filmed in Las Vegas for the CDC Galaxay CRM Users Conference.

Check out Shane’s presentation — and contact us if you’re looking for a social media sales speaker for your next conference. (Shane also does in-depth two-day social media boot camps as well).

Goals & Targets & Deadlines – The Secret To Success!

By Bill Gibson

During my recent tour throughout South Africa speaking to Business Owners, sponsored by Nedbank Small Business Services I talked about the fact that successful business owners, executives, sales people and entrepreneurs are goal driven people. KAYA FM has asked me to expand on this for their community of businesses.

First off, goal setting is one of the most important habits and abilities that an individual can have. According to a long time friend of mine, Dr. Lee Pulos, Clinical Psychologist and Sports Psychologist, “having a focus on a self-determined destiny or goal, is the one quality consistently found in people who are high achievers”.

Dr Lee Pulos goes on to explain, “Only 4% of the population have goals that are written. The 4% that have written goals achieve them 95% of the time”
The Yale University Study in 1953 really drives home the importance of goals.

In 1953 the Graduating Class were asked if they had written goals and a plan

Only 3% had such goals 20 years later…they researched the same people. The result… the 3% were worth more in financial terms than all the other 97% put together. A great reason to have a goal guided life.

By the way, that 3% also scored very high on their level of joy and happiness.

When you are setting your goals it is important to make sure that they are achievable goals and targets. One of the common reasons for depression is continually having goals that are unfulfilled.
According to Dr. Lee Burke, “children that grow up to be happy children are continually given goals by their parents, but they are achievable ones”. Achievable goals create happier people. So, keep setting new but attainable goals and maybe some day you will laugh as often as a child. A child laughs on an average of 400 times a day, the average adult laughs 15 times a day.

Following, are some of the tips around goal setting, target setting and achieving results.

Make Your Goal Specific With Timelines

The difference between a dream and a goal is “a goal is a dream with a specific deadline or timeline”. The new Soccer Stadiums, Gautrain, Airports and Highway Improvements throughout South Africa is one of the best examples of how a deadline brought many dreams to fruition.

Make Them SMART Goals

S – Specific
M – Measurable
A – Attainable
R – Realistic
T – Time Limited

 

Break Them Into Smaller Chunks

Annual Target -R30M
1st Quarter = R6M
2nd Quarter = R7M
3rd Quarter = R8M
4th Quarter = R9M

1

st Quarter = R600K
January R1.5M
February R2.0M
March R2.5M

January – Break it down to 15 working days at R100K per day.

Put An Action Plan Together

If your average sale is R5000 and it takes 5 calls to close one deal you need 75 sales calls to close 15 deals @ R5000 to give you R75,000.

That means 5 calls per day to land 1 sale. If you have 20 salespeople they each do 5 calls a day. They will each close 1 sale a day at R5,000 x 20 salespeople which equals R100,000 per day x 15 days = R1.5M. The action plan is 5 sales calls a day per salesperson.

Set Up A Measurement System

What gets measured gets managed and what gets managed gets done. Measure the activities, number of sales, average sale, etc. Do short term measurement…by the hour, day part or by the day. That way you stay on top of the situation. You know whether you are ahead or behind.

Do Not Give Up

 

This man…

  • Failed in business at age 31
  • Was defeated in a Legislative Race age 32
  • Failed again at business 34
  • Experienced the death of his sweetheart at age 35
  • Had a nervous breakdown at age 36
  • Lost an election at age 38
  • Lost a Congressional Race at age 43
  • Lost a Congressional Race at age 46
  • Lost a Congressional Race at age 48
  • Lost a Senatorial Race at age 55
  • Failed in an effort to become Vice-president at age 56
  • Lost a Senatorial Race at age 58
  • Was elected President of the United States of America at the age of 60

It was Abraham Lincoln! When he failed he failed forward. See failure and mistakes as just information. Success and failure are not opposites. Failure is part of success.

Thomas Edison, after trying 9,999 ways to perfect the electric light bulb insisted. “I did not fail. I just discovered another way not to invent the electric light bulb”.

Bill Gibson will be our first specialist to speak at the KAYA FM series of events that will kick off in August. Hope you will join us.

Bill, is an author, speaker, entrepreneur, sales specialist, executive coach, master marketer and superb communicator. He is the author of the book Boost Your Business In Any Economy, The Art And Science Of Problem Solving audio program, the 25 Module Complete Sales Action System, the 8 module Managing Complex Business Relationship System, the 43 Module Professional Sales Representative Career Program and the three part Business Success Series Audio CD and Manual Program.

Bill has spoken to over one million people worldwide, he is a Canadian who resides in South Africa and is the Chairperson of Knowledge Brokers International S.A. (Pty) Ltd. If you would like to hire Bill as a Keynote speaker, trainer or consultant or for more information on his sales, marketing, service and entrepreneurial systems as well as his Call Centre Collections, Sales and Service programs you can contact him at +27 11 784 1720 or email bill@kbitraining.com. Click here to view Bill on youtube.

Top Sales 2.0 Bloggers and Podcasters

Here at Knowledge Brokers we have to stay on top of all of the major sales and marketing trends globally. It’s a lot of work to sift through the volume of great strategy, best practices and insights that are found on the web. This is one of the reasons that it so important to search out thought leaders and specialists from various aspects of selling. Here are some of our favorite sales and social media experts and some of their blog posts of the week:

Dan Waldschmidt (@DanWaldo)  shares a new business intelligence tool that will help you learn more about your prospects: Edgy Technology – Flowtown Takes it Personally.

Anthony Iannarino (@iannarino) talks about: Two Sales 2.0 Offerings That Enable Sales 1.0

Tibor Shanto (@renbor) talks about why finding the customers’ pain may be the wrong focus for sales people: Saturday Sales Tip -21

Bill Rice (@kaleidico) talks about: Lead Management the Secret to Lead Buying

Jim Keenan shares a software tool with us that could be a game changer for many in: More Time for Videos

Cindy King (@cindyking) shares a powerful networking and community building strategy she calls “Twitter Interviews

Skip Anderson (@skipanderson) reviews a winning Korean Air Ad and talks about why it’s so successful: When TV Ads Work

4 expert tips for better planning

Originally Published in: Succeed in business
Most business owners have lost control long before the proverbial horseradish hits the fan. “It is all about proper planning,” says Bill Gibson, author and founding partner of Knowledge Brokers International. “Lack of foresight when starting out is the main reason why promising businesses fail further down the road.”

The key to ensuring a better chance of success is to plan your business properly while it is still in the concept stage. The better the foundation you lay when setting up, the more likely it will be that you can keep control when trouble hits.

Admittedly there are many variables to take into account, but Gibson says the following four points are vital and should not be overlooked.

1. Know with whom you are getting into business

Spend some time getting to know possible business partners before trusting them with privileged information or formalising business deals. Admittedly, it is difficult to make accurate judgements about people after just a couple of meetings, but it is sufficient to get an idea of their ethics.

“A person’s hierarchy of values is a powerful indicator of how they will react when the pressure is on. Unethical people will ruthlessly pursue their own interests and do whatever it takes to get what they want – even if it means screwing you over. These people also often make sure that they are well protected before agreeing to the terms of a deal.”

“Lack of foresight when starting out is the main reason why promising businesses fail later down the road” – Bill Gibson

2. Take care in drawing up the Articles of Incorporation

The Articles of Incorporation is the most critical document in planning a new company, because it details how the ownership and management of the business are organised.

“You need to be absolutely meticulous in drawing up the Articles of Incorporation, because you never know what is going to happen down the road,” says Gibson.

“Seek out all possible scenarios and try as far as possible to plan for any unforeseen circumstances that could arise. Think about how you would raise capital in a crisis situation or what would happen if a key partner had to leave. It makes people uncomfortable to think about partners walking before they have even opened their businesses, but the truth is all partnerships come to an end at some time.”

Gibson suggests forming a company or a close corporation right from the outset. This prevents crisis situations occurring if one of the partners leaves or switches allegiances should another company be brought on board as a shareholder.

The other thing to look out for at this stage is giving away too much of the business. This can really come back to bite you when your company enters a high-growth phase or if it lands in financial difficulties.

In both cases, you will need capital to either grow the business or keep it afloat. Very often, this means selling shares to raise funds. The problem is that if you have given too much away in the beginning, you could find yourself in a minor shareholder position and ultimately on the outside looking in.

“This does not mean, however, that you are safe as long as you are the major shareholder,” says Gibson. “The business could be set up in a way that a majority vote on the board in terms of numbers can rule even if you hold most of the shares. It really is all about the how things are stated in the Articles of Incorporation and it is vital that business owners do their homework in this regard.”

3. Be realistic when doing projections

Never over-project when selling your concept to potential investors, because this is what you will be held to once the business is up and running.

“If you fail to meet the conditions you agreed upon with investors, you could find that their expectations eventually wear you down. When you suffer emotionally you lose heart, which is extremely dangerous.”

In situations like this where your self-worth has taken a knock you end up agreeing to unhealthy terms out of guilt or because you feel that you do not have a choice. Ultimately, it could cost you your dream.

4. Ensure you have effective financial controls in place

Too often, small business owners wing it when it comes to instituting proper financial controls. This is mostly because these systems can be costly to implement and time consuming to set up. And because time and money are the two things in shortest supply when starting a new business, entrepreneurs do everything themselves and make it up as they go along.

Besides the obvious risks that come with not really knowing what you are doing, unwitting business owners could also fall victim to theft and fraud by employees or partners. Good financial systems also become more vital as the business grows.

“Increasing sales is good, but it is a cost leader because it requires administrative and financial support,” says Gibson

“You need to have implemented strict budgetary controls and debt collecting measures by the time you business enters its growth phase. Otherwise you will grow too fast for your own good and ultimately lose control due to financial mismanagement.”

Bill Gibson of Knowledge Brokers International can be reached on 011 784 1720 or 082 450 9877.

Make money in the dark

Make money in the dark
by Marilyn Parr

Bill Gibson reveals how to keep your business afloat during the power cuts

Originally Published in: Succeed in business
There is no getting around it: the power cuts are a major blow to South African businesses. And unfortunately, among the hardest hit are the little guys running small and medium enterprises.

“We need to get real about this,” says Bill Gibson, chairperson of Knowledge Brokers International. “If your company is barely breaking even every month, the power cuts could put you out of business. Even if you are turning a profit, you need to prepare for the possibility of lean times ahead.”

“Do not wait  around for Eskom, the government or your landlord to give you a hand – you have to help yourself” – Bill Gibson


By nature, smaller businesses are more agile than large corporations. This is the time to exercise your flexibility and out manoeuvre your bigger competition. “Do not wait around for Eskom, the government or your landlord to give you a hand. The truth is that you have to help yourself,” says Gibson.

Analyse your business’s needs and gather as much information as quickly as possible. This empowers you to take action. Businesses that have moved swiftly are capitalising.  “There is a steakhouse in Sandton that was the first to get a generator. While other restaurants are in the dark, it is scrambling to seat the people queuing out the door.”

The secret to making money in any economy, good or bad, is to keep your business lean and keen. In other words, determine how you can keep your overheads down and direct your energies into growing your core business.

“Getting lean is one thing but staying keen requires hard work psychologically,” says Gibson. “The market is still there – even if it is smaller.”

Many companies tend to withdraw and stop advertising in tough times. Never do this. Redouble your efforts. Make more calls and be proactive. Now is the time to advertise, because everyone else is pulling back and it is easier to get above the noise level.

There are a number of aspects to managing your people effectively during a crisis. The first and most important is keeping morale up.

“We all need outlets for our frustration and anger. The trick is not to get bogged down in the negatives,” says Gibson. “Look for good news and make sure you tell your staff. Set aside a certain part of the day for complaining and then concentrate on making the most of every opportunity.”

He adds that in some ways the power cuts have helped to stimulate much-needed dialogue in companies. It has forced people to hold impromptu meetings and to talk about issues that are other-wise sidelined.

Gibson says that losing good people is not an option. He suggests that you work closely with your staff and be upfront about the state of the company. Involve them and listen to their suggestions.

“Try to be fair when it comes to reimbursement. Instead of letting people go, try to find an agreement where you cut back working hours equally. Consider going onto an hourly rate of pay but institute half a day’s pay as the minimum.”
During tough times, the survival instinct kicks in and people tend to look after their own interests. According to Gibson, it is more effective to pool resources and work together with others, especially if you run a small or medium enterprise.
“Try splitting the cost of a generator with other small businesses in your building. It can be a huge expense for one company alone but together it is manageable.”

Dealing with the power crisis may mean adjusting the way you do business. For instance, working hours may need to be revised. Once there is a schedule in place, work around the power cuts or go in on weekends. Try to arrange that activities that do not require power take place during load shedding times, like meetings or training sessions.

If a large part of your business is about calling for sales, print out hardcopies of your client database. Plan your calls in advance and divert landlines to cellphones so that you are able to take calls wherever you are. Better planning with regards to petty cash and petrol is a necessity.

Retailers may have to consider processing credit cards manually. Gibson admits that this is risky but says that it is better than not being able to make any sales at all.

A restaurant in Sandton is scrambling to seat customers because it was the first to get a generator


Lastly, consider investing in technology to alleviate the power crunch. Laptops and cellphones work on batteries and can give you a few extra hours. Buy extra batteries and keep them charged. Investigate 3G connectivity for laptops and uninterrupted power supply for other computers.

Realise that although you are not in control of the situation, you can control your reaction to it. “In any given situation you have three choices,” says Gibson. “You can speak out. You can accept it. Or you can exit.”

For many people who own businesses, exiting now is not an option because of the time and money they have invested to grow their enterprises. And because there is only so much talking to be done, it seems that adapting to the circumstances is the most sensible route.

Gibson says that adapting means you have to get real about where the country and your business are.
He adds that while disbelief is a normal reaction under stressful circumstances, you cannot stick your head in the sand and pretend that all is well. “Power cuts are a reality. The sooner you believe it, the quicker you can do something about it.”

Now is the time to advertise, because everyone else is pulling back and it is easier to get above the noise level


Bill Gibson has spoken to over one million people around the world and is the chairperson of and a partner in Knowledge Brokers International SA (Pty) Ltd (KBI), along with Marius Liebenberg. Bill Gibson is the author/developer of the 25-module sales system titled The complete sales action system and the eight-module Managing complex business relationships system. For more information about Bill Gibson as a speaker and the KBI products, contact 011 784 1720 or bill@kbitraining.com

Avoid the blame game

There are many possible reasons why the country is experiencing an electricity supply crisis. And while it is important to figure out the cause, the truth is that pointing fingers is counterproductive. Looking for someone to blame is energy sapping and prevents you from moving forward.

“South Africa is not Zimbabwe, but it is not a fully functioning first world country either. At least now we know what we are up against and this gives us a basis from which we can operate. We are not the only country in the world experiencing an energy problem. China, Brazil and Cuba have found solutions and we can too,” says
Bill Gibson.

Amid the disappointment and the outrage, business owners need to adopt a rational approach if they are to keep on top of the situation. Although it is not possible for the average person to solve the country’s problems, they can solve the challenges facing their own companies. With the right attitude and through honing your tactics, you may even find ways to increase your sales.

What is UPS?

You may have noticed, over the past few weeks, that there has been a less than continuous stream of electricity to everything in your company. But not to worry, spokespeople for the relevant authorities say that it will not continue for more than another seven years. Yes, you may kill yourself now.

However, there is a solution to keep your computer systems running so that production and productivity are not completely decimated – the ever faithful UPS. This translated from tech-speak into English is uninterruptible power supply. What it does is immediately supply power to computers to maintain normal operation during a power failure until a backup generator can be activated.

Except for online UPS, a short transfer time between two minutes to 10 minutes can be expected. Usually, when the blackout happens, the power supply of PC continues for 16 minutes, and therefore most PCs will still work during the transfer period.

According to UPS Direct, there are five criteria to choosing the right UPS:

1.    Understand specifications of all UPS
2.    Consider the requirements of power quality
3.    Understand the current capacity of the UPS and consider expansion in the future
4.    Choose the reputed brands and manufacturers
5.    Choose a UPS based on your requirements

Coupled to this, there are also five important evaluation criteria of which to take note:

1.    UPS reliability and stability
2.    High efficiency and low noise
3.    Suppliers’ reputation and financial situation
4.    International safety approvals such as TUV, UL, CSA etc
5.    Plant certifications such as ISO9001, ISO9002 etc